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	<title>Comments on: Critical Mass &#8211; Edmonton &#8217;09</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/</link>
	<description>The adventures, rants and ramblings of Ken &#38; Sheldon, two guys who like to ride bikes.</description>
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		<title>By: Sheldon Smart</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-762</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheldon Smart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-762</guid>
		<description>@Tim, 

You might be right - I wondered about that at the time because I felt out of place wearing a helmet. That and I was one of the only dorks in spandex... :-/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tim, </p>
<p>You might be right &#8211; I wondered about that at the time because I felt out of place wearing a helmet. That and I was one of the only dorks in spandex&#8230; :-/</p>
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		<title>By: TimBrez</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-761</link>
		<dc:creator>TimBrez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-761</guid>
		<description>CM&#039;s are a form of cycling demonstration which I find do not do ANYTHING for cycling, in viewing the video I see numerous cyclists without helmets and many courier types who generally do not obey ANY rules of the road. These type of &quot;cyclists&quot; give cyclists a bad view in the eyes of cars which they are trying to impress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CM&#8217;s are a form of cycling demonstration which I find do not do ANYTHING for cycling, in viewing the video I see numerous cyclists without helmets and many courier types who generally do not obey ANY rules of the road. These type of &#8220;cyclists&#8221; give cyclists a bad view in the eyes of cars which they are trying to impress.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Hurd</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-548</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Hurd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-548</guid>
		<description>Just ran across the Edmonton Poet Laureat’s (Roland Pemberton, aka. Cadence Weapon) first reading and found it interestingly à propros and timely for this post:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.edmontonjournal.com/soundslides/poet_laureate10142009/story.html?id=2103125&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Audio slideshow here »&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/afterword/archive/2009/10/14/cadence-weapon-presents-first-work-as-edmonton-s-poet-laureate-read-quot-critical-mass-quot-here.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Full poem here »&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just ran across the Edmonton Poet Laureat’s (Roland Pemberton, aka. Cadence Weapon) first reading and found it interestingly à propros and timely for this post:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.edmontonjournal.com/soundslides/poet_laureate10142009/story.html?id=2103125" rel="nofollow">Audio slideshow here »</a><br />
<a href="http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/afterword/archive/2009/10/14/cadence-weapon-presents-first-work-as-edmonton-s-poet-laureate-read-quot-critical-mass-quot-here.aspx" rel="nofollow">Full poem here »</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-543</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-543</guid>
		<description>Great video Sheldon, it looked like a fun time and even I would like to participate.  However, being a strong supporter of the cycling community, I have to question the mindset of the persons organizing the ride.  Doing the CM rides in a confrontational way with the common motorist and in violation of the traffic rules will only turn people against the CM group.

In my humble opinion, there are two ways to conduct this worthy ride that would make it an acceptable, respected event.  
  #1 - Treat it as an awareness campaign.  (Don&#039;t treat it as a protest) Get a proper parade permit from the City of Edmonton and use the entire street if you like.  
  #2 - Again, treat it as an awareness campaign and not a protest. Do not bother with a proper parade permit.  Invite cyclists to participate, however, be what cyclists are expected to be, obey the traffic laws but do it in large numbers.
   My message to CM.  I am with you.  I encourage you to convince city governments to widen streets to accomodate cyclists and make cities friendly to motorists and safe for cyclists.  I know from experience that Edmontons roadways are not safe for cyclists but city council is working on it.  If you become confrontational, not only will I no longer wish to participate in your ride,  you will also lose my support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great video Sheldon, it looked like a fun time and even I would like to participate.  However, being a strong supporter of the cycling community, I have to question the mindset of the persons organizing the ride.  Doing the CM rides in a confrontational way with the common motorist and in violation of the traffic rules will only turn people against the CM group.</p>
<p>In my humble opinion, there are two ways to conduct this worthy ride that would make it an acceptable, respected event.<br />
  #1 &#8211; Treat it as an awareness campaign.  (Don&#8217;t treat it as a protest) Get a proper parade permit from the City of Edmonton and use the entire street if you like.<br />
  #2 &#8211; Again, treat it as an awareness campaign and not a protest. Do not bother with a proper parade permit.  Invite cyclists to participate, however, be what cyclists are expected to be, obey the traffic laws but do it in large numbers.<br />
   My message to CM.  I am with you.  I encourage you to convince city governments to widen streets to accomodate cyclists and make cities friendly to motorists and safe for cyclists.  I know from experience that Edmontons roadways are not safe for cyclists but city council is working on it.  If you become confrontational, not only will I no longer wish to participate in your ride,  you will also lose my support.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Hurd</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-508</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Hurd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-508</guid>
		<description>This conversation exemplifies why I struggle with the point of the Critical Mass... I&#039;m all for the rationale behind it (from my understanding, an attempt to raise awareness for cycling and assert them as a vehicle that belongs in traffic as well), but as @cardriver points out, from a drivers position all it serves is to frustrate.

With that said, I definitely think @g is hitting the heart of the matter by touching on a drivers preoccupation with speed and ‘getting through traffic’, but I&#039;m unsure how a Critical Mass does anything to help this situation – Again, many times all it does is aggravate already hurried drivers.

I think the problem lies in the fact that to anybody outside of a CM there is absolutely no context (to my knowledge)... To a driver, it&#039;s probably something to the effect of “Oh... There must be some sort of cycling event... Cool... I gotta to get home, hope it wraps up soon and they get the heck out of my way.”

I&#039;m unsure as to how to get the context of a CM out there, perhaps banners, badges, or jerseys that the cyclists wear, pointing to a website for drivers to find out more information, but to @cardrivers point, taking up both lanes does less to prove a point, and more to piss drivers off. Shouldn&#039;t the riders in a CM exemplify commuters best practices?

The sad thing is that when it come to the road, cars own it, whether cyclists like it or not. 19lbs of aluminum vs. 1000lbs of warm Detroit steel? We both know who’s winning that battle.

I understand the need to get out there and ruffle some drivers feathers, and I also understand the need to make it happen during times that maximize exposure and impact (ie. high traffic times), but I think it needs to be done in the most courteous manner possible to help raise awareness, while keeping a drivers impression of cyclists untainted and potentially even improving it.

Am I just being naive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This conversation exemplifies why I struggle with the point of the Critical Mass&#8230; I&#8217;m all for the rationale behind it (from my understanding, an attempt to raise awareness for cycling and assert them as a vehicle that belongs in traffic as well), but as @cardriver points out, from a drivers position all it serves is to frustrate.</p>
<p>With that said, I definitely think @g is hitting the heart of the matter by touching on a drivers preoccupation with speed and ‘getting through traffic’, but I&#8217;m unsure how a Critical Mass does anything to help this situation – Again, many times all it does is aggravate already hurried drivers.</p>
<p>I think the problem lies in the fact that to anybody outside of a CM there is absolutely no context (to my knowledge)&#8230; To a driver, it&#8217;s probably something to the effect of “Oh&#8230; There must be some sort of cycling event&#8230; Cool&#8230; I gotta to get home, hope it wraps up soon and they get the heck out of my way.”</p>
<p>I&#8217;m unsure as to how to get the context of a CM out there, perhaps banners, badges, or jerseys that the cyclists wear, pointing to a website for drivers to find out more information, but to @cardrivers point, taking up both lanes does less to prove a point, and more to piss drivers off. Shouldn&#8217;t the riders in a CM exemplify commuters best practices?</p>
<p>The sad thing is that when it come to the road, cars own it, whether cyclists like it or not. 19lbs of aluminum vs. 1000lbs of warm Detroit steel? We both know who’s winning that battle.</p>
<p>I understand the need to get out there and ruffle some drivers feathers, and I also understand the need to make it happen during times that maximize exposure and impact (ie. high traffic times), but I think it needs to be done in the most courteous manner possible to help raise awareness, while keeping a drivers impression of cyclists untainted and potentially even improving it.</p>
<p>Am I just being naive?</p>
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		<title>By: g</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-507</guid>
		<description>```Now, everyone in traffic has the right to be rude and make people hate them, but if your point is to make people like bicycles, shouldn’t you follow the “Slow traffic keep right” policy?``

People don`t `make` eachother hate, dislike, or even like them. You don`t dislike trains because of THEM, you dislike trains because of YOU. That feeling is in you and no one is out there `making people hate them`....if you have hate it`s yours so take responsibility instead of blame others. 

I don`t consider CM as cyclists `trying to make people like them`...yes it`s good publicity for bikes but it`s also to say `this is how we like to travel, please accept it`....there`s a lot of different rhythms to flow by. Just go with the flow. Maybe you would like CM so try it. 
Speed kills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;`Now, everyone in traffic has the right to be rude and make people hate them, but if your point is to make people like bicycles, shouldn’t you follow the “Slow traffic keep right” policy?&#8220;</p>
<p>People don`t `make` eachother hate, dislike, or even like them. You don`t dislike trains because of THEM, you dislike trains because of YOU. That feeling is in you and no one is out there `making people hate them`&#8230;.if you have hate it`s yours so take responsibility instead of blame others. </p>
<p>I don`t consider CM as cyclists `trying to make people like them`&#8230;yes it`s good publicity for bikes but it`s also to say `this is how we like to travel, please accept it`&#8230;.there`s a lot of different rhythms to flow by. Just go with the flow. Maybe you would like CM so try it.<br />
Speed kills.</p>
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		<title>By: g</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-506</guid>
		<description>hey i drive a car too and don`t have that opinion. Sometimes driving can really go to people`s heads though and make them think they`re `better than everyone else` too, as you say. For one thing, better and worse doesn`t exist! :) And it`s healthy to turn things around once in a while. As he stated here, the point is to show that bicycles are not obstructing traffic -- they are traffic. Do you get it now? Or are you still preoccupied with speed ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey i drive a car too and don`t have that opinion. Sometimes driving can really go to people`s heads though and make them think they`re `better than everyone else` too, as you say. For one thing, better and worse doesn`t exist! :) And it`s healthy to turn things around once in a while. As he stated here, the point is to show that bicycles are not obstructing traffic &#8212; they are traffic. Do you get it now? Or are you still preoccupied with speed &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: cardriver</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>cardriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-505</guid>
		<description>Okay, what is Critical Mass trying to prove anyway? From my perspective it is a way to show you are better than everyone else.

I am very thankful I was able to turn onto 109th St. right before the mass of bicycles. It scares me that apparently traffic lights don&#039;t apply to you. But what really annoys me is that you are taking up both lanes of traffic. Now, everyone in traffic has the right to be rude and make people hate them, but if your point is to make people like bicycles, shouldn&#039;t you follow the &quot;Slow traffic keep right&quot; policy? You are acting just like a train that stops at a railway crossing for a long period. I don&#039;t like them either.

I am all for better support for bicycles, and I would like it if Edmonton was a more bicycle friendly city; it certainly needs bike lanes and more trails. Driver education would also help. But whenever a protester is inconveniencing me for the sake of a protest, it just makes me want to do the opposite.

I probably sound like a troll, but that is not my intent. This is just the opinion of someone who drives a car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, what is Critical Mass trying to prove anyway? From my perspective it is a way to show you are better than everyone else.</p>
<p>I am very thankful I was able to turn onto 109th St. right before the mass of bicycles. It scares me that apparently traffic lights don&#8217;t apply to you. But what really annoys me is that you are taking up both lanes of traffic. Now, everyone in traffic has the right to be rude and make people hate them, but if your point is to make people like bicycles, shouldn&#8217;t you follow the &#8220;Slow traffic keep right&#8221; policy? You are acting just like a train that stops at a railway crossing for a long period. I don&#8217;t like them either.</p>
<p>I am all for better support for bicycles, and I would like it if Edmonton was a more bicycle friendly city; it certainly needs bike lanes and more trails. Driver education would also help. But whenever a protester is inconveniencing me for the sake of a protest, it just makes me want to do the opposite.</p>
<p>I probably sound like a troll, but that is not my intent. This is just the opinion of someone who drives a car.</p>
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		<title>By: E</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-503</link>
		<dc:creator>E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 04:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-503</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the vid, missed the ride, had to work late. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the vid, missed the ride, had to work late. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: K8</title>
		<link>http://blog.bikeridr.com/2009/09/critical-mass-edmonton-09/comment-page-1/#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>K8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.bikeridr.com/?p=2342#comment-478</guid>
		<description>Glad to see you&#039;re one of the converted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see you&#8217;re one of the converted.</p>
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